three movies, knives out Really showing his limits. After starting with a mystery on a cozy New England estate, the series gets much darker, with the sequel set on a Greek island owned by an Elon Musk-style tech bro wake up dead manThis time, director Rian Johnson crafts a closed-door mystery set inside a small-town church, with a story that explores issues of faith and the divine,
Each film has its own distinct style, but Johnson says there was no master plan to explore each of these styles one by one. “I really think it’s very important that I follow my instincts for each one,” he tells me. “I don’t want to plan them in advance.”
Ahead of wake up dead manThe theatrical premiere on November 26 (and the Netflix premiere on December 12), I talked to Johnson about what happens knives out Aside from other mysteries, why the latest film is his most personal yet, the importance of grounding things in the real world and beyond The VergeI have a cameo glass onionWill our humble website ever appear in the series again?
The interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
Now that you’ve done three of these, is there anything you’ve learned that makes this series special or unique?
I haven’t really taken a breath and thought about the unifying factor. There are two things that I touched on very early in this series and brought up well, and maybe it’s connective tissue. First of all, being a fan of whodunits, I instinctively know that the detective is not the main character. All of these movies are based on a character that the audience really sympathizes with, and who has a keen interest in sports, who wants something and can’t get it. ana [de Armas]Her character in the first one is Janelle [Monáe]is in the other one, and Josh O’Connor is in this one. In this way, the detective plays a supporting role.
The other element of it that was at least unique when I started it is, growing up reading Agatha Christie books, and then seeing adaptations of them, those adaptations were always period pieces set in England. So they always had a sense of timelessness, detached from our present-day reality. with knives outI said I would abandon the idea of timelessness and write only about the present moment. I have tried to do this with all three. For me, that’s what gives the red meat that I can dig into with writing these things. Mystery stuff is fun, but the way the mystery can connect with things that are on the minds of all of us living in the year 2025 of our God is where the real juice is for me.
It’s funny that you mention current references. When I came out of the movie premiere my colleagues were asking if The Verge is in wake up dead man And I had to break the news that we have been replaced by Substack,
Oh God, forgive me. The VergeAs you know, it’s in my bookmarks, I check it every day. Then it will come back.
For the timeless aspect, wake up dead man Interesting because in many ways, especially visually, it has a timeless feel, but it still has those modern references. Was it a challenge to balance those two things?
It’s kind of intuitive. It is set in a rustic church, which itself has an old atmosphere. But I was very conscious of just the thematic political elements and beyond all that, I still wanted to make sure that — whether it was Daryl McCormack’s character as an influencer who is filming everything from his iPhone rig, or whether it was pop culture references — I wanted to make sure that we never lost the thread that this is happening in the here and now.
Given how fast everything moves, do you ever worry that those references will be out of date by the time the movie comes out?
I always worry about it. For example, the few pop culture references it contains are merely jokes; there is star wars Another one about Netflix. I thought none of these things were going anywhere in a year.
With different themes for each film, did you do any kind of pre-planning for the series? Like, I’m going to start with a cozy mystery and then work up to a Gothic locked-door mystery.
Not only was there no plan, but when we first created I didn’t know if we would be able to make more. I really think it’s very important that I follow my instincts for each one. I don’t want to plan them in advance. To some extent, I’m having the same experience that the audience is having, experiencing a movie and then going, ‘Okay, what would be the really different thing to do next?’ It’s not that you’re just being reactive, there’s more to it than that, but for me that’s part of it. When I make a film, I’ve been living in that world for so many years, it’s like eating the same thing for lunch every day. There is a tendency to do something different and give it a new look.
I don’t even want to pre-plan because the style and vibe of the film largely depends on what the film is and what it is about and what the themes are. I want to respond specifically to where I am in life at that time. And it’s tied into the world I’m reading about, and the current moment we’re all living in. That’s a big part of these movies for me. Every person is a response to the present moment.
So what was the starting point here?
It all started with faith. I knew I wanted to do something where I dug a little deeper for myself and ground it, so I thought the best way to do that was to make it about something very personal. I grew up very Christian. It wasn’t that I was in a religious household; My relationship with Christianity and Jesus Christ was how I shaped the world around me from my childhood until my early 20s. I am no longer a Christian, I am no longer a believer. So it’s something that holds a very complex place within me.
The first decision I made was let’s see if I could have a multifaceted conversation with myself on this topic that didn’t seem preachy or finger-wagging, but also not toothless. And let’s see if I can do that in the context of one of these movies; A big, entertaining Benoit Blanc film. Then it becomes fun to attempt an impossible crime, and it fits in very well with this place where miracles are something that is in the air. And that led to other decisions about the film.
Given that we still don’t really know much about Benoit, do you find yourself learning about him as you write each film?
Yeah, because I feel like, for me, creating a backstory for Blank isn’t that interesting. His role in these films is that of a detective. And I want to learn about them through their objective of solving each case which is its own movie. This probably sounds very basic and obvious, but for me what it means is that it forces me to reveal the character first and foremost through action, but also through her relationship with each film’s protagonist. In this, Josh O’Connor’s character is Father Judge. I think we learn a lot about Blanc in this, but we learn it through her relationship with Father Jude as they try to solve this case together. All that is to say, I don’t want to have some kind of solid backstory about Blank that we have to slave over. I want to use blanks as effectively as possible in whatever story I’m telling.
I know you’ve said before that you construct each mystery like designing a crossword puzzle. But what does this actually mean in practice?
Part of that analogy is just that it’s elbow grease. Part of it is little moments of inspiration, and part of it is staring at it for a while and just grinding. But there’s also another layer of connections where you’re solving problems with every single step, and all of those problems need to mesh together in a way that creates a whole that feels symmetrical and complete. There is an element of puzzle solving to unravel its mystery.
Believe it or not, 90 percent of the secret is making it as simple as possible. I know these movies sound very complicated, but a lot goes into making sure that the audience’s linear experience while watching it is not looking at a crossword puzzle, but being pulled through the whole thing. And it’s only when you think about it after the movie is over that you see all the intricacies and it seems like a more complex thing.
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